Question for Greeks: Zembetiko for BD? - Page 4

Kiraze · 02-24-2007, 06:04 AM

I found one YouTube-clip that shows quite typical movements used in Turkish Zeybek by women (but this clips also proves at least for me that zeybek should not be danced by women if they do not have "something to tell" like these ladies obviously do not have)

BTW this music is Harmandali, which is probably the most popular and famous zeybek tune - I love it!

chryssanthi sahar · 02-24-2007, 06:51 PM

Yes Kiraze, you are right, these ladies lack a bit of passion

But Greek Zeimbekiko is completely different anyway and it is a solo dance. People normally never dance Zeimbekiko together. It is always one person who dances and all the other kneel before him/her and clap their hands. And the whole thing has a completely different dynamic. Here is a very good example for typical Greek Zeimbekiko, very male style

Great dancer, great song ("O Aetos"meaning "The Eagle" of Notis Sfakianakis)

chryssanthi sahar · 12-11-2007, 03:36 AM

I'm reviving this thread, because I have at last a video of myself dancing Zeimbekiko. I performed it at my last Oriental Flow show. I already put the clip in the youtube forum, but since there are so many clips there, people who are interested in this dance may not notice it, so I'm putting it also here (Zorba, where are you

)

Dream_Merchant · 09-11-2008, 10:54 AM

I am sorry for reviving this thread, but I could not help but to comment and add my 2 cents. First of all, I am not a belly dancer, but I dance zembekiko. I actually came to this thread while googling for information on the theory of zeibekiko. I would be pleasantly surprised to find a forum similar to this but related to what I am interesting in. Before I leave though, here are my thoughts on the above topic.

a) Tsifteteli and Zeibekiko do not have the same rhythmic pattern. So I don't know if you can really dance it correctly. I have never heard of it being attempted though, so I don't know maybe, but my personal recommendation would be not to try it as there is nothing really to be gained apart from some creative momentary entertainment, at the expense of some angry greeks throwing insults if not worse at you.

The opposite is true though. There is 'very' slow tsifteteli that is 90% of the time danced as a zembekiko by the general populace. 'Pente Ellines ston Adi'. The sombre lyrics of the particular song (that are prevalent in a zembekiko) assist in reinforcing the misdirection.

b) Zembekiko and Zeybek dances, even though related somehow, are very distant cousins indeed. There are similarities like a common 9/8 rhythm, but the philosophy and even the dance structure is completely different. After all if we are simply to compare 9/8 rhythms, even Sting has an 8/8+1/8. There are many many variations of 9/8. Such is the beauty of music.

c) Women dancing zembekiko. I really do not see a problem. Zembekiko is supposed to be a dance to express intense feelings. Women experience emotions as well, and there are particular songs that speak for women that are awesome classics (an example was given above, but there are also others such as 'Xano ton antra pou agapo', 'se pino sto potiri mou'). Even though the steps are the same, the style is different, with women leaning less on acrobatics and more on grace. Also, the movement's for men are usually more sharp and profound, but for women more fluid and reserved.

On a historical note: Zembekiko was not restricted to men. Women could dance it, but the only women allowed to dance it where prostitutes (arguably as only they could really tell of the real hardships of life).

my 2 cents.

chryssanthi sahar · 09-13-2008, 04:30 AM

Your 2 cents are worth a lot Dream Merchant

Very well said

I also learned something new, because although being Greek and born and grown up in Greece, I didn't know that women used to dance Zeimbekiko already in the early times of Rembetiko. I knew, that it started becoming common in the 60ies and 70ies (watching movies of that time you can see it) and today it is absolutely normal. And, as you mentioned, there are quite some Zeimbekiko songs with "female" subjects, sung by women.
But as about dancing Zeimbekiko on very slow Tsifteteli, to be honest, I've never in my life seen anybody doing this in Greece. Maybe it is possible, but it is not common.

02-24-2007, 06:51 PM	#32 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Yes Kiraze, you are right, these ladies lack a bit of passion But Greek Zeimbekiko is completely different anyway and it is a solo dance. People normally never dance Zeimbekiko together. It is always one person who dances and all the other kneel before him/her and clap their hands. And the whole thing has a completely different dynamic. Here is a very good example for typical Greek Zeimbekiko, very male style Great dancer, great song ("O Aetos"meaning "The Eagle" of Notis Sfakianakis) __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

12-11-2007, 03:36 AM	#33 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	I'm reviving this thread, because I have at last a video of myself dancing Zeimbekiko. I performed it at my last Oriental Flow show. I already put the clip in the youtube forum, but since there are so many clips there, people who are interested in this dance may not notice it, so I'm putting it also here (Zorba, where are you) __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

09-11-2008, 10:54 AM	#34 (permalink)
Dream_Merchant Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1	I am sorry for reviving this thread, but I could not help but to comment and add my 2 cents. First of all, I am not a belly dancer, but I dance zembekiko. I actually came to this thread while googling for information on the theory of zeibekiko. I would be pleasantly surprised to find a forum similar to this but related to what I am interesting in. Before I leave though, here are my thoughts on the above topic. a) Tsifteteli and Zeibekiko do not have the same rhythmic pattern. So I don't know if you can really dance it correctly. I have never heard of it being attempted though, so I don't know maybe, but my personal recommendation would be not to try it as there is nothing really to be gained apart from some creative momentary entertainment, at the expense of some angry greeks throwing insults if not worse at you. The opposite is true though. There is 'very' slow tsifteteli that is 90% of the time danced as a zembekiko by the general populace. 'Pente Ellines ston Adi'. The sombre lyrics of the particular song (that are prevalent in a zembekiko) assist in reinforcing the misdirection. b) Zembekiko and Zeybek dances, even though related somehow, are very distant cousins indeed. There are similarities like a common 9/8 rhythm, but the philosophy and even the dance structure is completely different. After all if we are simply to compare 9/8 rhythms, even Sting has an 8/8+1/8. There are many many variations of 9/8. Such is the beauty of music. c) Women dancing zembekiko. I really do not see a problem. Zembekiko is supposed to be a dance to express intense feelings. Women experience emotions as well, and there are particular songs that speak for women that are awesome classics (an example was given above, but there are also others such as 'Xano ton antra pou agapo', 'se pino sto potiri mou'). Even though the steps are the same, the style is different, with women leaning less on acrobatics and more on grace. Also, the movement's for men are usually more sharp and profound, but for women more fluid and reserved. On a historical note: Zembekiko was not restricted to men. Women could dance it, but the only women allowed to dance it where prostitutes (arguably as only they could really tell of the real hardships of life). my 2 cents. Last edited by Dream_Merchant; 09-11-2008 at 10:56 AM.

09-13-2008, 04:30 AM	#35 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Your 2 cents are worth a lot Dream Merchant Very well said I also learned something new, because although being Greek and born and grown up in Greece, I didn't know that women used to dance Zeimbekiko already in the early times of Rembetiko. I knew, that it started becoming common in the 60ies and 70ies (watching movies of that time you can see it) and today it is absolutely normal. And, as you mentioned, there are quite some Zeimbekiko songs with "female" subjects, sung by women. But as about dancing Zeimbekiko on very slow Tsifteteli, to be honest, I've never in my life seen anybody doing this in Greece. Maybe it is possible, but it is not common. __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

02-24-2007, 06:04 AM	#31 (permalink)
Kiraze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 389	I found one YouTube-clip that shows quite typical movements used in Turkish Zeybek by women (but this clips also proves at least for me that zeybek should not be danced by women if they do not have "something to tell" like these ladies obviously do not have) BTW this music is Harmandali, which is probably the most popular and famous zeybek tune - I love it!