Shanazel

SCA insistence on authenticity varies widely from one place to another, I reckon. I saw two members of a Colorado group nearly come to blows over the question of whether or not is was permissible to use synthetic fabrics for period clothing. I just sat quietly in my borrowed medieval gown of genuine polyester satin and tried not to draw attention (or fire) while I drank my mead.

Somehow, I don't think bikini tops would've gone over well in this particular shire, or whatever their group is called...

Sara

Lol, me neeva.

In the US you have all these faires and groups and stuff, but ova here we don't have owt like it. Let alone spiffs over material at the events we do have, lol.

What are these SCA's like?

nigma

Oh my eyes!

Shanazel

Totally nuts in a very erudite fashion. And you do too have that stuff in England- you just haven't personally sought out your own British brand of nutcakes yet. Some friends of ours attended the re-enactment of the Norman invasion in England a few years ago- had to dress in period costume, fabric was a big issues, and they weren't even allowed to wear eyeglasses because the group hosting the battle was so hung up on authenticity. And then there are any number of neo-druids who get together and party, and the SCA has its branch in Great Britain... if you didn't spend so much time belly dancing, you too could find people with whom to argue about fabric. Oh, and then there is the Richard the Third Society, dedicated to fighting slander and libel against the late great king- surely in York you've run across those folks. York was the only place that had enough guts to publically mourn his death.

yonisha

It is very difficult to define what is or not "gypsy", first of all the Etymology of the word comes from the shortening and alteration of Egyptian, because it was believed that they originally came from Egypt, when they actually originated from India.

Gypsy is also a perjorative denomination for different ethnic groups, in between them the Roma people is one of these groups, which is also devided into different groups as they spread through different parts of the world. Here are some of the groups:

Romani - an ethnic group in Southern and Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Gitanos or Ciganos - Roma people in Spain, Portugal and southern France

Kalderash - most numerous of the Roma people, from the Balkans, Central Europe, and North America.

Romnichal or Rom'nies - mostly in Britain and North America.

Sinti or Zigeuner or Zingari - Roma people mostly in Germany, Austria, and Italy.

There are also Gypsy people not directly related to the Roma people, like the Lyuli (Central Asia), Pavee (Ireland, Great Britain and USA), Sea Gypsies ( Sautheast Asia), Yeniche (Germany, Austria, Sweitzerland, France, Belgium), Dom people (Middle East), and Lom people (Eurasia).

Etymologically, the word Flamenco comes from Andalusi Arabic fellah mengu, "Peasant without Land" - which would be a reference to "gypsy" or nomads. So the choice of the "latin" song on the video clip was probably done in reference to the Gitanos or Ciganos or Roma in Spain.

It might have been an offensive performance for some, when referred to a specific group of gypsy people, but not if referred to another group of gypsy. Anyway, fusion exists to explore art creativity. So I suggest that we relax and have fun with the possibilities to perform.

Although the performance was a fusion belly dance to a gypsy rumba (this song is from a music group from Spain, who made Rumba famous in Spain, and most likely he descent of Gitanos, the Spanish Gypsy people) I enjoyed, they seem to be making a parody at first, and having a lot of FUN!

__________________
May the Magic of Dance be with You! Yonisha - http://www.yonisha.com

steffib

Having only participated in Pennsic, my view may not be completely accurate. But, I found the SCA a hella lot of fun, and being from Europe, so I am always very amused when I see the whole kings and queens spiel. These folks research life in the Middle Ages, and then get together to re-enact aspects of that life. Some are more into beating each other with sticks, others are more into authentic crafts, and others excel at doing research; some are into the cultural expressions of the Middle East, esp. music and dance. And, like with all human group activities, it can become a bit extreme sometimes ;-)

But, by and large, the major gatherings of the SCA, called wars (since there are hundreds of people who beat each other with sticks), are wonderful events. Typically, people camp in more or less authentic tents in some big campground and play for a while. These folks like to party - and one can find wonderful music and dancing around fires all night. I have danced quite a few nights away at Pennsic, a two week event with up 12,000 more or less committed attendees, held every year an hour north of Pittsburgh. There are battles, days filled with classes on everything from proper handkissing to many aspects of belly dance (sword dance, zills, historical aspects, belly dance for manly men), an amazing market place with jewelry, fabrics, books, perfume. And, lots and lots and lots of dancing at night. I typically don't go to my tent before 3AM at Pennsic.

Aziyade

It's actually NOT difficult to define or recognize true "Gypsy" dance, no matter what ethnic form it takes if one just spends the time to actually study it.


I seriously doubt any heavy THOUGHT was put into the choice of music for this dance, based on her movements and her choice of costume. IF, in fact, this dancer IS a scholar of any particular "Gypsy" dance form, I would be interested in hearing about her motivation about her music/movment/costume choices for this piece.


This dancer may not have called or labeled her piece a "Gypsy" dance -- the videographer may have done that. So I'm not advocating sending her to bellydance hell. But it WOULD be nice if the people involved in historical recreation would at least make an ATTEMPT at displaying something that even just remotely resembles something that MIGHT be mistaken for the real thing.

And fusion smusion. You want to see REALLY good Middle Eastern and Medieval period dance fusion, check out Fatin in Louisville who danced at the Kentucky Renaissance Faire last year. That was some really well-researched and well-thought-out fusion.

Aziyade

Boy the above post sounded really hateful. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I'm just having my own issues with the SCA scene right now.

Amanda (trying NOT to be too much of a BOB)

Kiraze

heh, it is often said that gypsies adapted and formed the music and dances of the countries where they located into and with their own so for example in Finland (where is vivid and very visible gypsy community) according to this gypsy dance is Tango (and Finnish style of it - Argentinean tango is totally another story ) ... and for sure some of best Finnish tango singers are gypsies and most of gypsies are fantastic tango dancers so does this make tango a gypsy dance? I think that defining true gypsy dance definately can be difficult if their music and dance has been "melted into" music and dance of GP

rosaw

i actually saw that (i got a glimpse of me sitting there) and it was definately not gypsy but it was fun to watch and she had a lot of energy.