Egyptian style? - Page 3

Maria_Aya · 05-16-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charity

this is a question for sedonia. how would you rate jillina as egyptian style? and how far from egyptian would you rate .

Er the first time I read that Jillina is connected with Egyptian style was wondering who is this new Jillina and why picked the same name with Jillina from BDSS lol

I think you got my answer

Maria Aya

Kiraze · 05-17-2007, 12:00 AM

I could describe Jillina Egyptian style similar way as of most of the western dancers whose movement vocabulary is strongly based on modern Egyptian technique but lacks the real Egyptian feeling... just by analyzing movements it still is much closer to Egyptian than to e.g. Turkish or AmCab or Lebanese or any other specific style. Naturally this style has lots of western influences but it is still clearly based on Egyptian style as there is not one homogenous "western oriental"... in my eyes most of the Finnish and German dancers represent this style also even though their training is even more based on "real thing" as that dance still lacks the deep interpretation of music and is more like a technical showcase of ones skills: beautiful and entertaining yes but also a bit soulless

Aziyade · 05-17-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiraze

I could describe Jillina Egyptian style similar way as of most of the western dancers whose movement vocabulary is strongly based on modern Egyptian technique but lacks the real Egyptian feeling... just by analyzing movements it still is much closer to Egyptian than to e.g. Turkish or AmCab or Lebanese or any other specific style. Naturally this style has lots of western influences but it is still clearly based on Egyptian style as there is not one homogenous "western oriental"

Oh that's an excellent way of putting it!

Aisha Azar · 05-17-2007, 03:45 PM

Dear Group,
I would say there is nothing about Jillina that is Egyptian because movement does not make the style. Feeling, essence, cultural affiliation makes the style. Westerners often seem to forget completely about this as the thing that defines the dance, while Middle Easterners see the feeling as just as important, if not more important than technique. Besides, Jillina is too rough in her technique and lacks the subtelty of the Egytpian dancer. She is a harsh dancer. ( Now, quick.... somebody call Miles Copeland!!!!)
Regards,
A'isha

Kiraze · 05-17-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Group,
I would say there is nothing about Jillina that is Egyptian because movement does not make the style. Feeling, essence, cultural affiliation makes the style. Westerners often seem to forget completely about this as the thing that defines the dance, while Middle Easterners see the feeling as just as important, if not more important than technique

Even I agree that it demands real essence to truly be able to interpret dance like Egyptian, Lebanese, Turkish etc. I think the technique is however where we all start and it IS Egyptian dance technique in most of the cases - even with Jillina

- essence comes or does not come later... unfortunately not even all the pros ever get it but it still is Egyptian similar way as Flamenco without any duende is still Flamenco even though the real feeling is lacking.

Aziyade said it perfectly on another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziyade

We START with technique here, and build up to soul. That may not be the way it's done in Arab countries, when kids learn at home, but it's how it's done here. You learn the basic steps in class, you learn combinations, you learn choreographies to see what to dance to what in the music, and then you do your own choreos or improv and work on expressing your soul.

A lot of dancers don't get to that last stage. They never really work on expressing the soul. That's why that soul-ful feeling is missing in so many Western dancers. It's the next step that they don't take, for whatever reason.

Aisha Azar · 05-17-2007, 11:49 PM

Dear Kiraze,
In order for it to BE Egyptian technique, the movements must be done in a certain way. Jillina does not move in an Egyptian fashion. If you read what I wrote earlier, you will see that I said in effect that soul comes after we learn to walk the walk, so to speak, when I said that one can not walk well until one can walk at all. this referred to gaining in sould only after knowing how to move at some basic level.
I do not agree that Jillina is doing Egyptian technique, her movements are too big and she does not seem to understand that big and sharp does not mean Egyptian, her stance is wrong, she does not understand that accents are part of the dance and not the dance itself. There are a hundred other technical things that make her dance not Egyptian.
Another palce where we will probably disagree is that something can not be the dance without that right soul, ot essence. It becomes something else without it. Dance is far more than movement and each dance has its own distinct soul.
Regards,
A'isha

charity · 05-18-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziyade

Me too! I got to take a class with Rashid last month, who teaches at the Suhaila school and does that old-school kind of dance. It was GREAT! I wish that would make a comeback.

thats cool. my friend in st. louis has attended two of suhaila's workshops. i missed the last one but at that time i wasnt even taking classes. out here i dont know how to find the latest news on workshops.

so perhaps you know how to do the egyptian twist? i cant figure it out from the video and the description is a bit vague. i know you start with weight on the back flat foot, do you swing the weight from the back hip to the extended leg?

when i do this my body rocks slightly from the weight transfer and i get a level change, which she specifically says should not occur. unless you are doing the twist and sit. i might just need more practice to strengthen my obliques so that they can do all the work. i dont know.

charity · 05-18-2007, 08:30 PM

oh in regards to previous post, i am simply looking for the most authentic person to model myself after. i think i'd rather dance more soulful than authentic. and thats probably what i should focus on first or concurrently as i learn. i would hate to neglect that aspect of it. its not like i'm trying to be the best technically, and i think thats how it is these days.

Aziyade · 05-19-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charity

so perhaps you know how to do the egyptian twist? i cant figure it out from the video and the description is a bit vague. i know you start with weight on the back flat foot, do you swing the weight from the back hip to the extended leg?

when i do this my body rocks slightly from the weight transfer and i get a level change, which she specifically says should not occur. unless you are doing the twist and sit. i might just need more practice to strengthen my obliques so that they can do all the work. i dont know.

I'm not sure what an Egyptian twist is -- was this part of a Suhaila workshop?

When I think of the words Egyptian twist I think of Raqia's"8" with a twist. I can't figure out why she calls it an 8, but it's sort of a 3/4 hip circle, maybe a half circle, with a sharp twist forward and back on the free leg after you finish the 1/2 circle. Some folks call it a "jewel" step. Is that what you're talking about?

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 05-20-2007, 12:28 PM

Hi Charity and Aziyade, Jillina describes the "Egyptian Twist" in one of her Instructional videos, which everyone else describes a the "Jewel". This movement is very internal because it's muscularly driven. Keep practicing.
Yasmine

05-17-2007, 03:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,463	Jillina Dear Group, I would say there is nothing about Jillina that is Egyptian because movement does not make the style. Feeling, essence, cultural affiliation makes the style. Westerners often seem to forget completely about this as the thing that defines the dance, while Middle Easterners see the feeling as just as important, if not more important than technique. Besides, Jillina is too rough in her technique and lacks the subtelty of the Egytpian dancer. She is a harsh dancer. ( Now, quick.... somebody call Miles Copeland!!!!) Regards, A'isha

05-17-2007, 11:49 PM	#26 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,463	Jillina Dear Kiraze, In order for it to BE Egyptian technique, the movements must be done in a certain way. Jillina does not move in an Egyptian fashion. If you read what I wrote earlier, you will see that I said in effect that soul comes after we learn to walk the walk, so to speak, when I said that one can not walk well until one can walk at all. this referred to gaining in sould only after knowing how to move at some basic level. I do not agree that Jillina is doing Egyptian technique, her movements are too big and she does not seem to understand that big and sharp does not mean Egyptian, her stance is wrong, she does not understand that accents are part of the dance and not the dance itself. There are a hundred other technical things that make her dance not Egyptian. Another palce where we will probably disagree is that something can not be the dance without that right soul, ot essence. It becomes something else without it. Dance is far more than movement and each dance has its own distinct soul. Regards, A'isha

05-20-2007, 12:28 PM	#30 (permalink)
Yasmine Bint Al Nubia V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 1,132	Hi Charity and Aziyade, Jillina describes the "Egyptian Twist" in one of her Instructional videos, which everyone else describes a the "Jewel". This movement is very internal because it's muscularly driven. Keep practicing. Yasmine __________________ www.visionsofthenile.com

05-17-2007, 12:00 AM	#22 (permalink)
Kiraze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 389	I could describe Jillina Egyptian style similar way as of most of the western dancers whose movement vocabulary is strongly based on modern Egyptian technique but lacks the real Egyptian feeling... just by analyzing movements it still is much closer to Egyptian than to e.g. Turkish or AmCab or Lebanese or any other specific style. Naturally this style has lots of western influences but it is still clearly based on Egyptian style as there is not one homogenous "western oriental"... in my eyes most of the Finnish and German dancers represent this style also even though their training is even more based on "real thing" as that dance still lacks the deep interpretation of music and is more like a technical showcase of ones skills: beautiful and entertaining yes but also a bit soulless

05-18-2007, 08:30 PM	#28 (permalink)
charity Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: north carolina Posts: 819	oh in regards to previous post, i am simply looking for the most authentic person to model myself after. i think i'd rather dance more soulful than authentic. and thats probably what i should focus on first or concurrently as i learn. i would hate to neglect that aspect of it. its not like i'm trying to be the best technically, and i think thats how it is these days.