Turkish style - Page 3

Bettina · 07-18-2006, 07:09 PM

For those of you interested in taking a workshop with Artemis. She is teaching a workshop in Miami, FL December 9 and 10 of this year.

Follow this link for more information. http://www.kismetdancers.net/

chryssanthi sahar · 07-19-2006, 03:40 AM

Dear Aisha.

I wouldn't put the Roma dances in the category "belly dance". They are a category on its own. I don't know what kind of Turkish belly dance is being taught in the States, but what I have seen in Turkey itself and from Turkish belly dancers in Germany, as well as what I have on my Turkish belly dance videos, most of which I had bought in Instanbul, is definitely less complex (especially technically) than the Egyptian style. The same is true for the traditional Turkish belly dance music (I'm not talking about the classical Turkish music, this is very complex). I own quite some CDs with Turkish belly dance music and, believe it or not, it IS monotone and this endless clarinet parts just drive you crazy (even me as a Greek, who grow up with very similar sounds

). Even the Turks themselves don't like it anymore, that's why you hardly find Turkish dancers today, performing on traditional Turkish belly dance music. Almost all of them perform with Arabian music or modern fusions.

Kiraze · 07-19-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

...I own quite some CDs with Turkish belly dance music and, believe it or not, it IS monotone and this endless clarinet parts just drive you crazy (even me as a Greek, who grow up with very similar sounds

)...

This is so true and also sad - nowadays best "traditional" Turkish dance music can be found in America and not in Turkey - in Turkey there are lots of great drum solo CD:s but dance music is mostly either boring Arab pop á la Mezdeke or these boring synthesized versions of traditional music... some excellent music can be found with genuine instruments etc. but not usually under titles "belly dance", "oryantal" etc so you really must know what you are looking for

One thing about Turkish music and dancing I always wonder is what for dancers in Turkey do not use "sanat"-music or even "arabesk" music for dancing as these are the styles where Turkish music is at its best and there are wonderful singers like Orhan Gencebay, Ferdi Tayfur, Ibrahim Tatlises, Bülent Ersoy, Ebru Gündes, Sibel Can etc. whose music would be perfect for dancing (even at Ibo show dancers always dance to the boring music and that is the reason that also they look boring...)

Michelle · 07-19-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bettina

For those of you interested in taking a workshop with Artemis. She is teaching a workshop in Miami, FL December 9 and 10 of this year.

Follow this link for more information. http://www.kismetdancers.net/

Wohooo! Artemis is coming to Miami! Thank you, Bettina, for posting this! I had not yet heard about it!

Bettina · 07-19-2006, 02:15 PM

My pleasure, Michelle. My teacher referred me to this workshop saying that it is not one to be missed. So I am making every effort to attend.

Aisha Azar · 07-19-2006, 02:25 PM

Dear Chyrssanthi,
I am aware that Rom and belly dance are two different styles of dance, (though Jennet says that MOST belly dancers in Istanbul are actually Rom.) I have some very complex pieces of Turkish music. I suspect that dancers are using Turkish pop, just as Egyptians are now using pop to dance at times. For me, it is okay if you are using great modern music like Warda or Hani Shakur, but much of Egytian pop is also simplistic and repetitive, no changes in tempo, mood, rythm or other apects of the music. Wpuld you say it is the same for Turkish music??
Regards,
A'isha

chryssanthi sahar · 07-20-2006, 04:12 AM

Dear Aisha.

I must quote Kiraze, who seems to be an expert on Turkish music:
" some excellent music can be found with genuine instruments etc. but not usually under titles "belly dance", "oryantal" etc so you really must know what you are looking for "
So I suppose the music you have, is probably not Turkish belly dance music, but rather classical Turkish music. But to be honest, I am not expert on this kind of Turkish music. I only know belly dance and Rom music and some Folklore music (like the music from the Black Sea area, because it is the same with the Greek music from the Black Sea area). So it is only the belly dance music, I find monotone and boring. I've heard some classical Turkish music, which I liked a lot, because it was very complex, skillful and emotional, but Turks don't dance on this music. I don't know why and I don't know, if a non-Turkish belly dancer should dare to dance on the classical music. One should get very well informed about the meaning of this music among the Turkish people, before one dances on it.
As about the modern Arabian music on which Arabian belly dancers of today perform, I agree with you: it is boring and actually only good enough for in between (or for beginners). I find it o.k. if a pop-baladi song is part of a longer routine, but I find it unacceptable for a professional dancer to perform only with such music. A dancer who claims to dance Arabian style and cannot dance the classic pieces is not a good dancer. Sorry if I offend some people telling this, but this is why I am member of the BOBs

Aisha Azar · 07-20-2006, 04:36 PM

Dear Chryssanthi,
Thanks for your input about Turkish music. I am still in the process of learning and consider myself just above a beginner in this style. I studied Turkish years ago but then pretty much began a journey of great depth into Egup[tian belly dance, which is where my heart lies, and put aside other styles of belly dance, though I continued in my folkloric studies. I am now studying Turkish belly dance in more depth, but will probably not have enough time in my life to become a Turkish dancer of great expertise. I am 53 years old and if it is like Egyptian, it takes a lifetime.
Regards,
A'isha

PS: Anatoliy, thanks for the Avatar!!

Mark_Balahadia · 07-20-2006, 06:37 PM

I'm sorry I'd have to disagree with you completely. Dancing to a Turkish 9/8 song while playing zills is VERY hard. Try having an Arab dance to 9/8 music and they will completely dance off beat. The Ansaq (limping) 9/8 is very complex (there ARE different types besides the fast Karsilama) and most Turks will be able to dance to it without thinking (because it's in their "blood").

Also a lot of Turkish Bands have Rom musicians so a lot of overlap occurs, so they are not exclusively seperate. Many of the famous dancers of Turkey have been rumoured to be of Rom descent.

Although many dancers will perform to Egyptian music, some of the current dancers like Didem DO perform to Turkish Oriental Dance music. One of the best Turkish dancers of all time was Tulay Karaca and she danced to both Turkish and Egyptian music (in Turkish style).

Oh by the way, Tanyeli another famous dancers has performed with Ebru Gündes on huge stages with 70 strong orchestras. She dances to Ebru Gündes more Classical Turkish music.

So I'd have to say your assertions are incorrect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

Well I was not talking about Turkish music in general. Sure there is a lot of very interesting and complex Turkish music, especially from the Ottoman time. I was talking only about traditional Turkish belly dance music. I find it lot more monotone than the Arabian belly dance music. The same is true for the Greek belly dance music (Tsifteteli). Of course I love to dance on Tsifteteli music, because I am Greek, but I don't wonder, if non Greeks are not crazy about dancing with this music:p
By the way, I like also modern Arabian and Turkish music, but only for in between. I hate it, when a dancer performs only with this music. This is a sign, that she doesn't have high dancing skills.
As about Fatima Serin, you are right: she has kind of Egyptian-German mixed style with a touch of Turkish

She can dance quite well though.

Kiraze · 07-21-2006, 05:21 AM

Tanyeli´s dancing with huge orchestra is not very typical for Turkish dancers... and I don't know if she has done it often but anyway that is very beautiful. There is a clip of her with Ebru Gündez on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nnOcFv1TXc

Also Asena has danced with classical music but this time it was more "western classical" when she danced with pianist Anjelika Akbar and drummer Misirli Ahmet in "Bach á Orientale" - clip of this can be seen at Anjelika´s web-page under title "orkide": http://www.anjelikaakbar.com/scripts/multimedia/?d=3

But not all Turks can dance karsilama - that rhythm, music and dance are more typical to Trakia and western coast (Zeybek dance also uses typically 9/8 rhythm) and to Romani people and in other areas people mostly have no idea about how to dance to this rhythm (my Central Anatolian hubby have no clue even though he can dance great Horon and Seymenler dances)... anyway, most dancers come from Istanbul so there it is more common to know (but I have never seen any current famous Turkish dancers like Asena, Tanyeli or even Didem dancing karsilama so is it that they cannot or just for reason or other just do not like or whatsoever

)

07-18-2006, 07:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
Bettina Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 4	Artemis Mourat For those of you interested in taking a workshop with Artemis. She is teaching a workshop in Miami, FL December 9 and 10 of this year. Follow this link for more information. http://www.kismetdancers.net/

07-19-2006, 03:40 AM	#22 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Dear Aisha. I wouldn't put the Roma dances in the category "belly dance". They are a category on its own. I don't know what kind of Turkish belly dance is being taught in the States, but what I have seen in Turkey itself and from Turkish belly dancers in Germany, as well as what I have on my Turkish belly dance videos, most of which I had bought in Instanbul, is definitely less complex (especially technically) than the Egyptian style. The same is true for the traditional Turkish belly dance music (I'm not talking about the classical Turkish music, this is very complex). I own quite some CDs with Turkish belly dance music and, believe it or not, it IS monotone and this endless clarinet parts just drive you crazy (even me as a Greek, who grow up with very similar sounds ). Even the Turks themselves don't like it anymore, that's why you hardly find Turkish dancers today, performing on traditional Turkish belly dance music. Almost all of them perform with Arabian music or modern fusions. __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

07-19-2006, 02:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,463	Turkish Dear Chyrssanthi, I am aware that Rom and belly dance are two different styles of dance, (though Jennet says that MOST belly dancers in Istanbul are actually Rom.) I have some very complex pieces of Turkish music. I suspect that dancers are using Turkish pop, just as Egyptians are now using pop to dance at times. For me, it is okay if you are using great modern music like Warda or Hani Shakur, but much of Egytian pop is also simplistic and repetitive, no changes in tempo, mood, rythm or other apects of the music. Wpuld you say it is the same for Turkish music?? Regards, A'isha

07-20-2006, 04:12 AM	#27 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Dear Aisha. I must quote Kiraze, who seems to be an expert on Turkish music: " some excellent music can be found with genuine instruments etc. but not usually under titles "belly dance", "oryantal" etc so you really must know what you are looking for " So I suppose the music you have, is probably not Turkish belly dance music, but rather classical Turkish music. But to be honest, I am not expert on this kind of Turkish music. I only know belly dance and Rom music and some Folklore music (like the music from the Black Sea area, because it is the same with the Greek music from the Black Sea area). So it is only the belly dance music, I find monotone and boring. I've heard some classical Turkish music, which I liked a lot, because it was very complex, skillful and emotional, but Turks don't dance on this music. I don't know why and I don't know, if a non-Turkish belly dancer should dare to dance on the classical music. One should get very well informed about the meaning of this music among the Turkish people, before one dances on it. As about the modern Arabian music on which Arabian belly dancers of today perform, I agree with you: it is boring and actually only good enough for in between (or for beginners). I find it o.k. if a pop-baladi song is part of a longer routine, but I find it unacceptable for a professional dancer to perform only with such music. A dancer who claims to dance Arabian style and cannot dance the classic pieces is not a good dancer. Sorry if I offend some people telling this, but this is why I am member of the BOBs __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

07-20-2006, 04:36 PM	#28 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,463	Turkish, etc. Dear Chryssanthi, Thanks for your input about Turkish music. I am still in the process of learning and consider myself just above a beginner in this style. I studied Turkish years ago but then pretty much began a journey of great depth into Egup[tian belly dance, which is where my heart lies, and put aside other styles of belly dance, though I continued in my folkloric studies. I am now studying Turkish belly dance in more depth, but will probably not have enough time in my life to become a Turkish dancer of great expertise. I am 53 years old and if it is like Egyptian, it takes a lifetime. Regards, A'isha PS: Anatoliy, thanks for the Avatar!!

07-19-2006, 02:15 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bettina Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 4	My pleasure, Michelle. My teacher referred me to this workshop saying that it is not one to be missed. So I am making every effort to attend.

07-21-2006, 05:21 AM	#30 (permalink)
Kiraze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 389	Tanyeli´s dancing with huge orchestra is not very typical for Turkish dancers... and I don't know if she has done it often but anyway that is very beautiful. There is a clip of her with Ebru Gündez on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nnOcFv1TXc Also Asena has danced with classical music but this time it was more "western classical" when she danced with pianist Anjelika Akbar and drummer Misirli Ahmet in "Bach á Orientale" - clip of this can be seen at Anjelika´s web-page under title "orkide": http://www.anjelikaakbar.com/scripts/multimedia/?d=3 But not all Turks can dance karsilama - that rhythm, music and dance are more typical to Trakia and western coast (Zeybek dance also uses typically 9/8 rhythm) and to Romani people and in other areas people mostly have no idea about how to dance to this rhythm (my Central Anatolian hubby have no clue even though he can dance great Horon and Seymenler dances)... anyway, most dancers come from Istanbul so there it is more common to know (but I have never seen any current famous Turkish dancers like Asena, Tanyeli or even Didem dancing karsilama so is it that they cannot or just for reason or other just do not like or whatsoever )