Who are we kidding? - Page 2

Reen.Blom · 08-09-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

Dear Reen,
In response to your question, often laws do not actually make a great deal of sense no matter what country you live in!! But, the more politically correct response would be that during the 1940 and 1950s, when belly dancers were seen regularly in the movies, and in other entertainment situations, a large group of fundamentalist Muslims considered them to be a very poor example of how a Muslim woman would behave and they actually wanted belly dancers to either stop dancing all together or to have to wear extremely modest clothing. They expressed this concern to the government, who felt they had to do something, but who also understood that tourism brought very much money to the country and that belly dance was a big element in that. So, they decided that they would try to meet the religious faction's concerns half way. In doing so they just made everybody unhappy, but the shebeka was the law of the land for a long time.This law does not seem to as strict as it used to be and we now see bare stomachs in some hotels and other such places in Egypt, though not all of them for sure. We see that the government does not seem to crack down on belly dancers who are at the festivals, for example.
Regards,
A'isha

LOL often looking at Dina, I wonder if there should BD fashion police...LOL

masrawy · 08-09-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

Dear Reen,
In response to your question, often laws do not actually make a great deal of sense no matter what country you live in!! But, the more politically correct response would be that during the 1940 and 1950s, when belly dancers were seen regularly in the movies, and in other entertainment situations, a large group of fundamentalist Muslims considered them to be a very poor example of how a Muslim woman would behave and they actually wanted belly dancers to either stop dancing all together or to have to wear extremely modest clothing. They expressed this concern to the government, who felt they had to do something, but who also understood that tourism brought very much money to the country and that belly dance was a big element in that. So, they decided that they would try to meet the religious faction's concerns half way. In doing so they just made everybody unhappy, but the shebeka was the law of the land for a long time.This law does not seem to as strict as it used to be and we now see bare stomachs in some hotels and other such places in Egypt, though not all of them for sure. We see that the government does not seem to crack down on belly dancers who are at the festivals, for example.
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Aisha,
I am a little unconvinced with some of your statement on how shebaka came about. also the date I am talking from memory and did not research the subject.
You and I share the same year we were born 1953 so I was not their yet

, but the Egyptian revolution was 1952 ... I cant see them doing that change in the same year they took over. Also they were secular and I don't see them bending down to religious faction's ... I'll have to assume Islamic but at that time we only had Muslim Brotherhood that it. further more Gamal abdel Nasser jailed and persecuted the Muslim Brotherhood and put their leaders to death.
Best Regards~Mahmoud

Aisha Azar · 08-09-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masrawy

Dear Aisha,
I am a little unconvinced with some of your statement on how shebaka came about. also the date I am talking from memory and did not research the subject.
You and I share the same year we were born 1953 so I was not their yet

, but the Egyptian revolution was 1952 ... I cant see them doing that change in the same year they took over. Also they were secular and I don't see them bending down to religious faction's ... I'll have to assume Islamic but at that time we only had Muslim Brotherhood that it. further more Gamal abdel Nasser jailed and persecuted the Muslim Brotherhood and put their leaders to death.
Best Regards~Mahmoud

Dear Mahmoud,
Yes, I am not sure the information where I got the date is correct,either! the shebeka did come about as a response by the government being pressured from a religious faction, but the date could off in my case, as I did not make a note in my research as to where I got the information. (Sometimes I get so wrapped up in the info that I forget to do source notes.) 1953 was a good year!!
Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel · 08-09-2008, 10:52 PM

If the costume detracts from the dance because the audience is waiting for it to shift or fall off, it is probably not a good choice.

Ooh, Mahmoud and A'isha are old. I wasn't born until 1955.

lizaj · 08-09-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanazel

If the costume detracts from the dance because the audience is waiting for it to shift or fall off, it is probably not a good choice.

Ooh, Mahmoud and A'isha are old. I wasn't born until 1955.

You have got that in one. Your audience should be able to enjoy yor dance.

Go easy I'm 1947 vintage

Shanazel · 08-09-2008, 11:11 PM

Another great year! If we were wine, we'd all be auctioned at Christie's.

masrawy · 08-10-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

Dear Mahmoud,
Yes, I am not sure the information where I got the date is correct,either! the shebeka did come about as a response by the government being pressured from a religious faction, but the date could off in my case, as I did not make a note in my research as to where I got the information. (Sometimes I get so wrapped up in the info that I forget to do source notes.) 1953 was a good year!!
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Aisha,
I do remember watching Shuoher Zaki without the shebaka in movies, but then with it when they put here on TV ... may be that's why 1964 in my mind not that it is important.

Shanazel, It is too early for me to be auctioned off, I am Pinot noir and will mature in ten more years.

lizaj, keep dancing you go girl.

Salam to all of you~Mahmoud

Kharis · 08-10-2008, 07:03 AM

Then there is the question of when should a dancer decide to use mesh. I honestly think that once good skin tone has gone, then the mesh should come out....if you are working as a professional dancer, that is. There are currently one or two older dancers out there who could do with meshing up. You can just about get away with flabby skin tone when you're a young dancer, but not when you're older.

Somehow, the fishnet bodystocking always looks more classy to me...but then I'm biased, coz I've always worn them.

Marya · 08-10-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reen.Blom

And I have another question... What on earth is the purpose of mesh on the midriff( i am not talking about hiding problem skin but the ""modesty law" lol if many dancers reveal legs either through short skirts or slits up to "there"??? I personally prefer to see bare midriff than boobs about to pop out...)

Where to cover, and what equals modest is a cultural determination. For example, Peace Corps Volunteers serving in some South Pacific nations learned that bare breasts on a woman was ok, but to be suitably modest a woman must cover up from the waist to the knees.

I think the mesh cover in Belly Dance Bedlah was a creative way of meeting the letter of the law. "hey its covered, what's the big deal?" In old movies I have also seen really bizarre ornaments strategically placed on Bedlah belts to cover the navel.

I have also read accounts from dancers visiting Cairo that the law is selectively enforced and big fancy nightclubs are not hassled as much as seedy cabarets.

Morocco told a story on another list of one dancer (can't remember who) who, when she heard a Saudi audience member criticizing her costume for being too bare, went over to his table, stuck her leg up on his chair and pulled up on the mesh stocking covering most of her body, to "prove' she was covered. Morocco didn't relate how the audience reacted.

Marya

Phoebedances · 08-10-2008, 03:56 PM

All I know is I would never dance without my fishnet tummy cover.

But I do think sometimes the cut outs go a bit too far and the costume ends up looking like tiny bits of fabric just barely holding together! I don't think it's very elegant at that point.

08-09-2008, 10:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
Shanazel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains USA Posts: 4,578	If the costume detracts from the dance because the audience is waiting for it to shift or fall off, it is probably not a good choice. Ooh, Mahmoud and A'isha are old. I wasn't born until 1955.

08-09-2008, 11:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
Shanazel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains USA Posts: 4,578	Another great year! If we were wine, we'd all be auctioned at Christie's.

08-10-2008, 07:03 AM	#18 (permalink)
Kharis Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 128	Then there is the question of when should a dancer decide to use mesh. I honestly think that once good skin tone has gone, then the mesh should come out....if you are working as a professional dancer, that is. There are currently one or two older dancers out there who could do with meshing up. You can just about get away with flabby skin tone when you're a young dancer, but not when you're older. Somehow, the fishnet bodystocking always looks more classy to me...but then I'm biased, coz I've always worn them.

08-10-2008, 03:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
Phoebedances Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 310	All I know is I would never dance without my fishnet tummy cover. But I do think sometimes the cut outs go a bit too far and the costume ends up looking like tiny bits of fabric just barely holding together! I don't think it's very elegant at that point.