Costumes for children - Page 3

Kharmine · 10-16-2007, 06:35 PM

I remember a few years back going to a July 4 show at a football stadum with one of those local-talent presentations designed to keep the audience amused until the fireworks start.

One of the acts was a dance school class of very little girls doing some kind of jazzy dance -- all made up and wearing what looked like fantasy saloon girl costumes or something. My normally taciturn brother commented afterward, "That looked like a pedophile's dream."

I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon.

And when putting 'em in costumes, anyway, gotta remember they'll grow out of those darling outfits real quick!

Chani · 10-17-2007, 01:40 AM

Hi Kharmine,

The harem parties sound wonderful. Unfortunately, I coldn't open that link to see the photo (the site is parked). I'll find out if we have similar gatherings local to me. If not....I'm going to organise them.

Your brother was only calling it as he saw it. If it was obvious to him I wonder how it was not obvious to the parents and organisers of those little girls. They would have been just as entertaining in other outfits!!! There's no explaining some people's idea of appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmine

I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon.

And also is the point that children themselves often want to and try to grow up as quickly as they can. Not all kids but many do this. Biology dictates that a child will reach maturity. All that is required is time. We certainly don't need to be encouraging things along in that area when clearly it happens all on it's own without us interferring in the least.

Hi Kieweit,

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiewiet

. I found that most girls can be kept very happy by designing to their ideas(color or skirt/pants etc) and adding LOTS of trim without allowing them to be half naked.

I agree. My daughter has seen a few different outfits and has designed something for herself exactly as she would like it and it is very modest. It is more about the colour and the trim for her as you said. She has requested a short sleeved midriff top (not too much tummy showing) with fringing along the bottom and a full skirt with a belt with fringing to match the top. And she wants it to be in tartan. Probably because one photo she saw was in a check fabric. This might end up being a strange blend of of Middle Eastern and Scottish style - perhaps that is appropriate since as I mentioned we are of Scottish decent. In any case she is very pleased with it and I'm sure even her very conservative grandfather will think she looks very nice and appropriate for her age in it. There is all the time in the world when she actually is a grown up to wear other things.

But I wonder what other's do when their child does want to wear stuff that is really over the top. I disagree with just deciding on anybody's behalf such a personal choice as attire. I feel even children should have more autonomy and respect than that. I always try to be authentic with my kids and when my daughter wants to do something inappropriate for her age rather than completely ban the activity or outfit I try to honestly explain why it is a problem for me. She is then free to choose for herself and so far she has made good choices. In this way I don't rob her of the opportunity to make choices for herself but I do risk that not all her choices will be good ones and this I think is too hard for most parents.

I think when we outright deny our kids it can make them resent us, it can make them want to do something even more and it can cause a situation where they hide things from us. It also sends the message that we doubt they have the inteligence to make good choices. My kids have shown they have good instincts and can make good judgements and soI feel I only need to guide them rather than dictate their lives even from a young age.

I wasn't allowed make up at school but the other girls wore it so I would put it on after I left the house and take it off before I returned. I had no help getting it right and I was not a pretty sight. I wonder if my mother had had open discussion with me she might have agreed to me wearing very light make up with her helping me learn to apply it or I might have agreed to wait a few years. It was a lost opportunity to connect and relate to each other.

My daughter has tried to leave the house looking for all the world like a call girl. Think midriff halter top-very short skirt-knee high boots. Very groovy but not for public viewing on a preschooler. In that situation I will explalin that women will wear certain clothing to try to attract men and if a little girl wears that style it looks like she is trying to look sexy to attract boys. This she doesn't want - boys have germs don't you know and kissing is gross LOL. She says that now and swears she will never want to kiss a boy ever and she is going to live with us forever, too (I will remind her of that when she is older). I also explain that sometimes I don't mind an outfit but that other parents would judge and I dont want them to think I am a bad Mummy. I also explain that other girls might not be allowed to wear certain outfits and for her to wear them might make them feel sad or jealous. She understands and so her most outrageous outfits and make up looks she just wears around the house an for now she is happy with that.

I have gone off topic quite a bit here but this has been a good discussion on the issue of children and belly dancing. I am now more aware than before I initially posted of the pitfalls. Fore warned is fore armed as they say and I have much to think about.

Hi Maria Aya,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

Heyyyyyyy I just loved this thread, dont ever think like that for me, i love to communicate with people from all over the world and share our different point of view on various subjects

And read very carefully your messages and liked the philosophy you have on raising your kids

I am glad. I appreciate hot bloodedness for a good cause. Thank you for the compliment abut now we are raising our kids. I am seen a rather an odd ball parent in many ways but nobody could say my children aren't thriving and living joyfully.

Yasmine,

Happy birthday to your daughter and congratulations to her for accomplishing so much with her dance. She is fortunate to have a Mum like you looking out for her and it's lovely to hear about you and your daughter belly dancing together

My earlier comment about belly dancing with my daughter being a gift is because I think it is a wonderful way for mother and daughter to bond. I am blessed that my kids like to spend so much time with me and that i like to be around them so much too. It's not always easy for us to be together as much as we would like e.g. most work places don't allow children and many invitations we receive are for child-free gatherings. Also it is not always easy to find activities that we can do together not at home OR we find a great activity fo rthe kids but it's not sutable for me. So my daughter and I are very pelased that we have found something we both enjoy and we can do together.

Chani

kiewiet · 10-17-2007, 08:43 AM

Congratulations on your daughters birthday Yasmine. Fifteen is such an amazing year -especially for girls. My D turns 17 on Saturday and when I think back to 2 years ago I am stunned at the changes. May the coming years be filled with joy and wonderfull things for both of you.
This has turned into quite a thread! I am glad though because the discussions around children and costumes don't happen much and yet many kids are drawn to the dressing up and strange music like bees to honey.
I appreciate hearing from all the teachers about mother daughter sessions as I know how very much it meant to me to be able to enjoy BD and include my daughter. As my DH decided it was a "girl" thing, it became one of our special things to enjoy together and I found after classes my daughter would open up and talk about all kinds of things. It was as if the time spent there relaxed her and helped her to get perspective. Dance also created opportunities for us to talk about issues like clothing and image etc without it being confrontational. My teachers and fellow students made a wonderful contribution towards shaping values without even being aware of it. I am truly gratefull to them.

Kharmine you said:
I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon.
I think you made one of the most important statements there - I also feel that it is high time that we took back the reins and let our kids be kids. Gosh,you have a average life expectancy of lets say,70 years. Of those only maybe 15 are spent in being a child. That leaves 60 years in which to be an adult

Thats a very long time...

SaraKat · 10-17-2007, 01:11 PM

I have seen children performing dance in ways that made me uncomfortable, I have to admit. A lot of it has to do with the costume and makeup, as other people have mentioned. If if a kid is made up to look like they are a prepubescent beauty queen, it weirds me out. I find it creepy. If the choreography is flirtatious, it makes me feel like the kids are trying to be too adult, which is also disconcerting to watch.
Contrary to what you might expect I have seen this MORE in other forms of dance (jazz, hip-hop etc) than I have in bellydance. It happens all the time. Recently I was in a dance studio where my troupe occasionally rents space, and they had pictures of all their performing groups in costume. In one of the pictures was a group of 10-12 year olds in what looked like nightgowns and underwear all lounging over a big poster bed, pouting and wearing heroin-chic makeup. Now (a) that was so over in the 90s! and (b) what the--?!
I can just imagine the parents helping those girls with their costume and makeup and going "You look great sweetheart! Go look sexy for the camera, and make sure not to smile!"
Oy.

In any case I have also seen little girls bellydancing in ways that are TOTALLY age appropriate and very endearing. In my area there is a children's troupe called Happy Hips, and they are just mindblowingly adorable. I substituted for one of their classes once and the kids were great. They had so much self-confidence and they were all really nice to each other.
here's an article about them:
Belly dancers shake up Kidzu - Arts
I think you just have to make sure that you are not asking your kids to emote things they don't understand yet (e.g. what it means to be flirtatious), dressing them up in something they don't choose to wear, etc. etc. --or taking them to classes with someone who will do just that.

Kharmine · 10-17-2007, 06:15 PM

Chani, it wasn't me who mentioned "harem parties"!

Kiewiet, thanks, and we all seem particularly thoughtful and eloquent on this thread, don't we?

SaraKat, you're right about other forms of dance having this problem -- maybe it's because we don't see a lot of little girls taking belly dance classes so we don't see 'em in recitals!

Kids see adults as empowered in a way they long to be so, of course, they want to copy what they see as being celebrated and admired. I think there are too many adults who think "Isn't that cute!" in certain situations, as if everything was just another kids' game of "Let's pretend!"

Chani · 10-18-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmine

Chani, it wasn't me who mentioned "harem parties"!

Oops, excuse me, that was Kiewiet.

Well, things have escallated so I am very glad I started this thread.

My daughter has only been to one class and the instructor contacted me this morning to say she was great, talented etc. and that she would like her to perform in public this Christmas - a duo with the other little girl. I wasn't expecting this. She started the beginner's class at week 6 and while I figured this might come up in time I did think she would have to at least have done a full term of classes first. Funnily enough she changed her idea about her outfit this morning and has changed it to a top that "doesn't show my belly button".

She's keen to do it as is the other girl and the other Mum and I are expected to do the choreography!!! Cripes!! Now that is more than just a little challenging when you consider that I've never danced before in my life, I've done just 6 BD classes myself so far, I've only seen belly dancing in real life twice before and I am only just now taking baby steps to getting a feel for the music/culture/dance etc. I am completely out of my depth here. As I mentionted the other Mum is Turkish so she might have more of an idea than me and I can ask on this forum for help also.

The other thing that is nice is that her Dad will be up on the stage with them playing drums to accompany their dance. He's already drummer but he has only started to practice Arabic style drumming 2 weeks ago so it will be a debut for for both of them.

Thanks ladies for all of your advice and comments.

SaraKat, The Happy Hips are adorable. It looke like they are having great fun. Thanks for posting that link. Chani

kiewiet · 10-18-2007, 08:28 AM

Great news Chani
How great to have it in the family

you may want to find out what type of music they will be using and match the outfits- that always looks very cute. If you want help sourcing or just bounce ideas feel free to also to pm me. I am in Oz too

Chani · 10-19-2007, 02:04 AM

Thanks for your kind offer, Kiewiet. It's nice to know that belly dancing i a happening thing over here.

The update is that now we have decided at our teachers suggestion to make it a mother daughter dance. We Mums will sit in the middle and the girls will dance around us then they will sit while we dance around them. We don't want our 3yo to feel left out so she will be able to sit next to her Daddy up on the stage and just clap or maybe play a percussion instrument that isn't too loud so it doesn't matter if she keeps to the beat or not.

My instructor raised all the same issues that we have talked about here and she will use her experienced eye to assess the dance moves and outfits to make sure they are suitable.

So all in all I am very comfortable to be having her perform. It's just me I'm nervous about. Yikes. I haven't even cmopleted my beginners course. I will have to work very had to improve in the 8 weeks until the performance and we shall have to keep it VERY simple.

Thanks for all your help ladies.

Chani

KuteNurse · 10-19-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmine

I remember a few years back going to a July 4 show at a football stadum with one of those local-talent presentations designed to keep the audience amused until the fireworks start.

One of the acts was a dance school class of very little girls doing some kind of jazzy dance -- all made up and wearing what looked like fantasy saloon girl costumes or something. My normally taciturn brother commented afterward, "That looked like a pedophile's dream."

I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon.

And when putting 'em in costumes, anyway, gotta remember they'll grow out of those darling outfits real quick!

Yes! I agree...It is good to teach children dance, but be careful how you dress them for a performance. They are children and I think most people will agree it is much more fun to see a natural child dance than someone who is made up to look like a grown-up.

Reen.Blom · 10-28-2007, 11:10 AM

I think it is cxool when kids dance, but they should not be made to look like adults!! Oh the girls will be mad about all those beads glitter and sparkles!

Hey Chani dont forget to post a pic of a costume that you make!

10-16-2007, 06:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kharmine V.I.P. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Foot of the Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,248	I remember a few years back going to a July 4 show at a football stadum with one of those local-talent presentations designed to keep the audience amused until the fireworks start. One of the acts was a dance school class of very little girls doing some kind of jazzy dance -- all made up and wearing what looked like fantasy saloon girl costumes or something. My normally taciturn brother commented afterward, "That looked like a pedophile's dream." I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon. And when putting 'em in costumes, anyway, gotta remember they'll grow out of those darling outfits real quick! __________________ What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

10-17-2007, 06:15 PM	#25 (permalink)
Kharmine V.I.P. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Foot of the Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,248	Chani, it wasn't me who mentioned "harem parties"! Kiewiet, thanks, and we all seem particularly thoughtful and eloquent on this thread, don't we? SaraKat, you're right about other forms of dance having this problem -- maybe it's because we don't see a lot of little girls taking belly dance classes so we don't see 'em in recitals! Kids see adults as empowered in a way they long to be so, of course, they want to copy what they see as being celebrated and admired. I think there are too many adults who think "Isn't that cute!" in certain situations, as if everything was just another kids' game of "Let's pretend!" __________________ What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

10-28-2007, 11:10 AM	#30 (permalink)
Reen.Blom V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Between Heaven and Earth Posts: 2,263	I think it is cxool when kids dance, but they should not be made to look like adults!! Oh the girls will be mad about all those beads glitter and sparkles! Hey Chani dont forget to post a pic of a costume that you make! __________________ Join WORLD BELLY DANCE DAY! www.worldbellydanceday.com

10-17-2007, 08:43 AM	#23 (permalink)
kiewiet Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 56	Congratulations on your daughters birthday Yasmine. Fifteen is such an amazing year -especially for girls. My D turns 17 on Saturday and when I think back to 2 years ago I am stunned at the changes. May the coming years be filled with joy and wonderfull things for both of you. This has turned into quite a thread! I am glad though because the discussions around children and costumes don't happen much and yet many kids are drawn to the dressing up and strange music like bees to honey. I appreciate hearing from all the teachers about mother daughter sessions as I know how very much it meant to me to be able to enjoy BD and include my daughter. As my DH decided it was a "girl" thing, it became one of our special things to enjoy together and I found after classes my daughter would open up and talk about all kinds of things. It was as if the time spent there relaxed her and helped her to get perspective. Dance also created opportunities for us to talk about issues like clothing and image etc without it being confrontational. My teachers and fellow students made a wonderful contribution towards shaping values without even being aware of it. I am truly gratefull to them. Kharmine you said: I do think we need to be careful how we present and encourage children to perform -- they don't need to look or act like little adults. This society does too much, already, to encourage them to "grow up" too soon. I think you made one of the most important statements there - I also feel that it is high time that we took back the reins and let our kids be kids. Gosh,you have a average life expectancy of lets say,70 years. Of those only maybe 15 are spent in being a child. That leaves 60 years in which to be an adult Thats a very long time...

10-17-2007, 01:11 PM	#24 (permalink)
SaraKat Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 38	I have seen children performing dance in ways that made me uncomfortable, I have to admit. A lot of it has to do with the costume and makeup, as other people have mentioned. If if a kid is made up to look like they are a prepubescent beauty queen, it weirds me out. I find it creepy. If the choreography is flirtatious, it makes me feel like the kids are trying to be too adult, which is also disconcerting to watch. Contrary to what you might expect I have seen this MORE in other forms of dance (jazz, hip-hop etc) than I have in bellydance. It happens all the time. Recently I was in a dance studio where my troupe occasionally rents space, and they had pictures of all their performing groups in costume. In one of the pictures was a group of 10-12 year olds in what looked like nightgowns and underwear all lounging over a big poster bed, pouting and wearing heroin-chic makeup. Now (a) that was so over in the 90s! and (b) what the--?! I can just imagine the parents helping those girls with their costume and makeup and going "You look great sweetheart! Go look sexy for the camera, and make sure not to smile!" Oy. In any case I have also seen little girls bellydancing in ways that are TOTALLY age appropriate and very endearing. In my area there is a children's troupe called Happy Hips, and they are just mindblowingly adorable. I substituted for one of their classes once and the kids were great. They had so much self-confidence and they were all really nice to each other. here's an article about them: Belly dancers shake up Kidzu - Arts I think you just have to make sure that you are not asking your kids to emote things they don't understand yet (e.g. what it means to be flirtatious), dressing them up in something they don't choose to wear, etc. etc. --or taking them to classes with someone who will do just that.

10-18-2007, 08:28 AM	#27 (permalink)
kiewiet Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 56	Great news Chani How great to have it in the family you may want to find out what type of music they will be using and match the outfits- that always looks very cute. If you want help sourcing or just bounce ideas feel free to also to pm me. I am in Oz too

10-19-2007, 02:04 AM	#28 (permalink)
Chani Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 139	Thanks for your kind offer, Kiewiet. It's nice to know that belly dancing i a happening thing over here. The update is that now we have decided at our teachers suggestion to make it a mother daughter dance. We Mums will sit in the middle and the girls will dance around us then they will sit while we dance around them. We don't want our 3yo to feel left out so she will be able to sit next to her Daddy up on the stage and just clap or maybe play a percussion instrument that isn't too loud so it doesn't matter if she keeps to the beat or not. My instructor raised all the same issues that we have talked about here and she will use her experienced eye to assess the dance moves and outfits to make sure they are suitable. So all in all I am very comfortable to be having her perform. It's just me I'm nervous about. Yikes. I haven't even cmopleted my beginners course. I will have to work very had to improve in the 8 weeks until the performance and we shall have to keep it VERY simple. Thanks for all your help ladies. Chani