Weight training for raqs dancers? - Page 3

adiemus · 07-01-2008, 09:14 PM

I notice you don't mention heart rate - surely this is one very important aspect of increased CV that needs to be monitored? Not that I want to go into aerobic vs anaerobic metabolic demand, but at the very least the upper and lower HR 'zones' need to be identified and monitored.

I'm still curious Mago, why doesn't your wife post?

BTW - does she enjoy weight training?

My favourite workout? shimmy babe, shimmy - can dance for hours, can run/bike/lift weights for nanoseconds. Gardening is great, so is climbing, walking is fun (especially to far-off places off the beaten track where there are photo opportunities, and the weight training is carting my camera gear wherever I go!), but drag me near a fitness facility and I develop a sudden aversion to sweat, lycra, daggy old gym gear, and shared showers. Yuk.
Oh, and I do swim - snorkelling and finning so I can go scuba diving, otherwise? fitness is about feeling healthy, maintaining flexibility and strength, and getting rid of excess stress. Do something you enjoy, you'll do it more!

Mago · 07-02-2008, 12:16 AM

My wife is not a big forum kind of girl - thats my thing. She's normally involved in other things, as she's at home for the summer (she's a teacher) and enjoying her time with the kids. I pull her in to look over things before I post, but by and large, she doesn't involve herself much in the ME dance world yet - she's still learning her craft.

I like to do the networking and stuff, anyway.

I'll bring up the fact that she's been invited in, but I don't know that she'll be interested at this point.

As for answering the upper and lower heart rates issue - for the heavy exercise you're not necessarily going for HR - that's gonna max out anyway because this is sustaining a peak of activity for five minutes. Its also a self-limiter - you will NOT bang out a hundred push-presses in a minute, you might get 20 or so, and fatigue sets in, so you end up slowing down anyway.

We get sustained cardio and monitored HR with the ellipticals - the elliptical machines have a HRM built in, and this is where we focus on sustained upper HR.

The heavy lift session is designed to hit your HR peak and provide maximum work over a short sustainable point. Even if you have to take longer breaks than is written for, you will get benefits from this. Kinda like running - you don't have to go long and sustained, but you do have to keep walking, you don't get to stop.

She's not the biggest WT fan, but we talk about all sorts of silliness when we are resting, and we give pos. feedback as we lift and give encouragement as we work, so its not a lonely grind.

Mago

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 07-02-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mago

I've heard this, but mainly this is the natural response of the human female body being a little more stubborn in terms of fat retention due to possible pregnancy and the need for reserves during pregnancy.

The elevated post-workout burn is proportionately the same as a male, and eating a lower-carb diet will also contribute to a longer, more elevated burn because the exercise burns off glycogen, which is available glucose. When you run out, and none is readily available in your diet, your liver release glucogon to revert fat into usable reserves. Skipping breads, corn, and potatoes will make that conversion from food to glucose longer, so your body burns more fat and cals converting fat to usable stores. Eat lots of greens and veggies, they will give you the carbs your body needs, and it takes longer to break it down into usable glucose. So, a little protein and a lot of greens.

Women also have a slightly more efficient means of converting carb to glucose, too. Biology and preserving the childbearing facilities.

Most of the lesser burn for woen comes from a psychological resistance to a more strenuous resistance workout. I had one woman who was a nurse and could manhandle a patient out of bed, into a chair, and back, tell me she couldn't lift heavy because women are delicate (ahem) and not as strong as men (ahem crap ahem cough cough)

Structurally speaking, women are pound for pound stronger than guys. women as big as guys can lift more, push harder, and have more tolerance for pain than us wussy guys. Kim Lyons, one of the trainers on The Biggest Loser, is as big as Bob Harper, and she has better strength and endurance.

Women get the muscle strength, but not the mass of a guy lifting. So, why not, especially for the overall health benefits?

Go figure.

Ah Mago, you had me going until your comments about glycogen and glucagon. I think it is so important to present information accurately.
Glycogen is a long-chained polysaccharide...in essence long-chained form of glucose that is created and stored in the liver primarily and skeletal muscles. As you know skeletal muscles are the ones that respond effectively to exercise. Glucose is already in a usable form...glycogen is the stored form of glucose. Glycogen is broken down (via a series of complex chemical events) back into glucose.

Glucagon on the other hand is a hormone secreted by the pancreas that raises blood glucose levels. Glucagon is also the trade name for an emergency drug used to reverse hypoglycemia in diabetics. Glucagon works in opposition to insulin as they both help to regulate healthy levels of blood sugar. Glucagon does nothing to fat stores in the body...as adipose tissue has very little receptors to both insulin and glucagon. I'm sure you did not want to mislead anyone.
But I do agree as a nurse, I'm pretty strong..has anyone ever rolled a 300lb dead weight person over to change their sheets?
Yasmine

Ankebuzz · 07-02-2008, 08:57 AM

Thanks Mago, for posting those workouts... I'll be implementing a few of your exercises to try them out!

Mago · 07-02-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Ah Mago, you had me going until your comments about glycogen and glucagon. I think it is so important to present information accurately.
Glycogen is a long-chained polysaccharide...in essence long-chained form of glucose that is created and stored in the liver primarily and skeletal muscles. As you know skeletal muscles are the ones that respond effectively to exercise. Glucose is already in a usable form...glycogen is the stored form of glucose. Glycogen is broken down (via a series of complex chemical events) back into glucose.

Glucagon on the other hand is a hormone secreted by the pancreas that raises blood glucose levels. Glucagon is also the trade name for an emergency drug used to reverse hypoglycemia in diabetics. Glucagon works in opposition to insulin as they both help to regulate healthy levels of blood sugar. Glucagon does nothing to fat stores in the body...as adipose tissue has very little receptors to both insulin and glucagon. I'm sure you did not want to mislead anyone.
But I do agree as a nurse, I'm pretty strong..has anyone ever rolled a 300lb dead weight person over to change their sheets?
Yasmine

This is the difference between a nurse's understanding of the human chemistry, and a trainer's. This is how the information came from the training manual at NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) which is where I got my cert through. Apparently it's not as medically accurate as it should be. I'll add that into my notes in my manual for future reference.

No, i don't want to mislead anyone. I don't like the idea that the information i was trained with was inaccurate, so I'm adding this into my manual for later reference - thanks for the correction.

but i still think the model works as a baseline explanation - exhausting available stores of ready-made fuel creates the need to convert stored fat back into usable energy, and limiting the easier pathway of converting simple carbs to glucose will cause the body to draw on the fat stores to create.

As for the more accurate description - i stand corrected. I suspect that personal trainers don't need the same expertise nurses do in this area - this is why the info we have isn't as accurate.

there you go - sorry about the inaccuracy. I wasn't trying to mislead.

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 07-02-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mago

This is the difference between a nurse's understanding of the human chemistry, and a trainer's. This is how the information came from the training manual at NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) which is where I got my cert through. Apparently it's not as medically accurate as it should be. I'll add that into my notes in my manual for future reference.

No, i don't want to mislead anyone. I don't like the idea that the information i was trained with was inaccurate, so I'm adding this into my manual for later reference - thanks for the correction.

but i still think the model works as a baseline explanation - exhausting available stores of ready-made fuel creates the need to convert stored fat back into usable energy, and limiting the easier pathway of converting simple carbs to glucose will cause the body to draw on the fat stores to create.

As for the more accurate description - i stand corrected. I suspect that personal trainers don't need the same expertise nurses do in this area - this is why the info we have isn't as accurate.

there you go - sorry about the inaccuracy. I wasn't trying to mislead.

In fact I do aree with you that most exercise regimens do require the body to use readily available forms of energy via aerobic and anaerobic energy pathways. In addition, your workout plan seems sound for a normal healthy person..but care must be taken for people with chronic health conditions. Not everyone can handle such a regimen.
I think anyone who's in a position to educate people for healthier lifestyles still need accurate information even if we use it in different ways.
Yasmine

Mago · 07-02-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

In fact I do aree with you that most exercise regimens do require the body to use readily available forms of energy via aerobic and anaerobic energy pathways. In addition, your workout plan seems sound for a normal healthy person..but care must be taken for people with chronic health conditions. Not everyone can handle such a regimen.
I think anyone who's in a position to educate people for healthier lifestyles still need accurate information even if we use it in different ways.
Yasmine

No arguments there. My manual has modifications for various types of disability, to handle needs unique to each disability. However, these exercises were designed for my wife. I share them only for illustrative purposes.

In fact, I should probably edit them to include that, since I really don't want someone unprepared for them to get hurt and blame me for it...

But yes, i have modifications that account for major issues, like morbid obesity, diabetes, amputated limbs, and neurological disorders. i have one client with diabetes who's dr gets a weekly email form me with the planned activities. I am careful with my people - I don't want anyone to be hurt.

Brea · 07-02-2008, 07:02 PM

As someone who spent her whole life fighting and weightlifting, THANK YOU MAGO for pointing that out! Women are as strong as/stronger than men. I'm glad to hear someone else say it. Believe me, it has been an uphill battle on both sides. It seems neither women nor men want to believe this might be true. Anyway...

I personally find weightlifting to be one of the best ways to shape up. I wouldn't call it losing weight for myself because whenever I do it I just get bigger and heavier (muscles I assume).

da Sage · 07-02-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mago

7
Structurally speaking, women are pound for pound stronger than guys. women as big as guys can lift more, push harder, and have more tolerance for pain than us wussy guys. Kim Lyons, one of the trainers on The Biggest Loser, is as big as Bob Harper, and she has better strength and endurance.

Women get the muscle strength, but not the mass of a guy lifting. So, why not, especially for the overall health benefits?

Can you point me to a study that shows women of the same weight and height achieve (on average) more strength than men of corresponding weight and heights under a similar strength-building routine?

Some women are stronger than some guys of similar build, but I never thought that was usual. Even if the muscles are the same, don't women naturally pack more "dead weight" in the form of fat, that would decrease their net power output?

Moon · 07-02-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brea

It seems neither women nor men want to believe this might be true.

I do want to believe it. Problem is I am kind of the exception to the rule

07-01-2008, 09:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
adiemus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 970	I notice you don't mention heart rate - surely this is one very important aspect of increased CV that needs to be monitored? Not that I want to go into aerobic vs anaerobic metabolic demand, but at the very least the upper and lower HR 'zones' need to be identified and monitored. I'm still curious Mago, why doesn't your wife post? BTW - does she enjoy weight training? My favourite workout? shimmy babe, shimmy - can dance for hours, can run/bike/lift weights for nanoseconds. Gardening is great, so is climbing, walking is fun (especially to far-off places off the beaten track where there are photo opportunities, and the weight training is carting my camera gear wherever I go!), but drag me near a fitness facility and I develop a sudden aversion to sweat, lycra, daggy old gym gear, and shared showers. Yuk. Oh, and I do swim - snorkelling and finning so I can go scuba diving, otherwise? fitness is about feeling healthy, maintaining flexibility and strength, and getting rid of excess stress. Do something you enjoy, you'll do it more! __________________ He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

07-02-2008, 08:57 AM	#24 (permalink)
Ankebuzz Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: I live in Johannesburg in South Africa Posts: 41	Thanks Mago, for posting those workouts... I'll be implementing a few of your exercises to try them out! __________________ Ankebuzzzzzzzzzz

07-02-2008, 07:02 PM	#28 (permalink)
Brea V.I.P. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,283	As someone who spent her whole life fighting and weightlifting, THANK YOU MAGO for pointing that out! Women are as strong as/stronger than men. I'm glad to hear someone else say it. Believe me, it has been an uphill battle on both sides. It seems neither women nor men want to believe this might be true. Anyway... I personally find weightlifting to be one of the best ways to shape up. I wouldn't call it losing weight for myself because whenever I do it I just get bigger and heavier (muscles I assume). __________________ www.breamorgiane.com

07-02-2008, 12:16 AM	#22 (permalink)
Mago Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Anto, baby! Posts: 25	My wife is not a big forum kind of girl - thats my thing. She's normally involved in other things, as she's at home for the summer (she's a teacher) and enjoying her time with the kids. I pull her in to look over things before I post, but by and large, she doesn't involve herself much in the ME dance world yet - she's still learning her craft. I like to do the networking and stuff, anyway. I'll bring up the fact that she's been invited in, but I don't know that she'll be interested at this point. As for answering the upper and lower heart rates issue - for the heavy exercise you're not necessarily going for HR - that's gonna max out anyway because this is sustaining a peak of activity for five minutes. Its also a self-limiter - you will NOT bang out a hundred push-presses in a minute, you might get 20 or so, and fatigue sets in, so you end up slowing down anyway. We get sustained cardio and monitored HR with the ellipticals - the elliptical machines have a HRM built in, and this is where we focus on sustained upper HR. The heavy lift session is designed to hit your HR peak and provide maximum work over a short sustainable point. Even if you have to take longer breaks than is written for, you will get benefits from this. Kinda like running - you don't have to go long and sustained, but you do have to keep walking, you don't get to stop. She's not the biggest WT fan, but we talk about all sorts of silliness when we are resting, and we give pos. feedback as we lift and give encouragement as we work, so its not a lonely grind. Mago