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V.I.P.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 4,439
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Dance, etc.
DEar Anisettph,
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Originally Posted by Aniseteph
This is a very interesting thread. I wonder if some of the issues with males expressing emotions aren't more complex than East/West attitudes. Look at ballroom tango vs. Argentine tango, or flamenco. Some cultures just don't rate males getting their sensitive/passionate sides ou.
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I agree and feel that to put the blame on "colonialist attitudes" is rather twisting the picture, too. It is important to remember that most people did not even come into contact with those colonialists on a regular basis. Like everywhere, the ruling parties tended to not hang out with the average person, but stuck to the upper classes, others mostly being beneath their dignity, expect for a few rare cases of those who went native. (T.E. Lawrence was one of those in a whole nother country!!) These days it it pretty easy for the rich to influence the social mores of the poor, but in those days not so much with no good media to pass on how the other half lived. When I was in Cairo in April I spent time in both upper and middle class houses. From the outside maybe there was not so much difference, but inside you could tell that there was still a strong class system, (just like here!!).
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My 2 cents worth on the colonial thing is that it comes across as a bit simplistic to put any ME Issues with men dancing for money down to adopted colonial attitudes about propriety/effeminacy/homosexuality. I'm not saying it wasn't so, just that this implies to me the native culture is, well, really easily led. There may be many other factors involved, but I'm out of my depth historically so will shut up.
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VERY well said, and please never shut up. The alternative point of view can get you into trouble, but sometimes it also will be the catalyst for a balanced and realistic point of view.
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I think you have to focus on the TYPE of dances and the cultural baggage that goes with them. In any culture where there's an active tradition of mixed male and female social dancing there'll be no effeminacy issues about guys dancing, because you'll see your dad and brothers etc all doing it, it's normal. (Oh c£@*, I just saw where this is heading, tries to change direction....). A style that's perceived as a girls thing is another matter.
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Yes!! And this very clear distinction of what belongs to a man or a woman has been set into Judeo/Christian/Islamic stone for a time much longer than colonialism has had its effects in that region of the world. Since belly dance is merely a hundred years old, we might have to look at a longer time period to see how such attitudes of male/female professional dancing developed. Anywhere that there is a division between male and female forms of work we see such attitudes, and those have always existed in the Middle East. Belly dance there is considered to be a job title, not a way to play.
What do a lot of us have in the West as images of male dancers? Age-specific styles like street-dance, high skill/training performance like ballet, folk-styles that everyday folk don't do any more, and <cringe> dad-dancing at the disco. No wonder some guys feel they need How To Dance and Be Manly rules, however misguided, when venturing into unfamiliar territory.
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Both Khanjar and Dipali discussed the differences between western and eastern concepts of masculinity. In taking business classes, I discovered that whole countries are classified in western business ideas, in terms of "masculine" and "feminine". the whole "manly" thing has different connotations from culture to culture, but for sure, belly dance has never been considered to be "manly" in the Middle East. Other types of dance, such as Saidi, Shaabi, Beledi, Ardah, Debke, Bambouteyeh, etc, yes, but not Raqs el sharghi. I am probably going to sponsor a gentleman from Alexandria for a shaabi workshop sometime in the next few months. He has made it abundantly clear that I must make sure the students understand he is NOT teaching belly dance!! My own experience with the dance has showed me that he is pretty typical, though there may be a few exceptions.
Regards,
A'isha |