Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy8522
If our religion was that horrible 1.8 billion people would have abandoned it a long time ago. Surprizingly, Muslims now make up one fourth of the world population and are ever growing, and they are not going anywhere anytime soon, so why doesn't everyone just face it and get on with life.
Arab cultures are still highly bound with traditions, some of these have existed for thousands of years, long before Islam, and if "they" the Arab people want change they have to do it on their own. If the Jordanians or Saudi Arabians decided that they didn't like your way of life, or that they didn't like the way your judicial system is run, wouldn't you mind if they tried to interfere? The problem is that you are indoctrined from birth that your way of running society is correct, when it clearly isn't from the social problems we keep hearing about like street crimes and kids going to school and shooting at other kids. It is not up to you or "anyone" to tell people what they are or aren't supposed to do with their own society, especially if the person offering this "friendly advice" may not have any traditions or heritage to begin with, especially if this person is from a completely different region like Midwest, USA, never lived in any of those countries that she/he is criticizing, doesn't speak the language of the people she/he is criticizing, doesn't quite understand the religion, the culture or the mentality of the people she/he is criticizing, trust me any "efforts" in this case, (not necessarily "my" opinion, I am speaking from Arab/Middle Eastern people's point of view), regardless what one's intentions are, they are useles and comes off as bigotry.
I am assuming you haven't visited the Arab world, because the only country where it is a legal requirement for women to cover their heads is Saudi Arabia, so this law isn't common as you think it is. And if the laws in Saudi Arabia (the closest ally to the United States in the region) are bothering you, and you truly want to help change them, why don't you ask the US government to stop stealing or "buying" the Saudi people's "cheap oil" and in return keeping their dictators and oppressive regime in power- as long as it supports this oppression to save the interests of its own multi-national coorporations, the silent majority in Saudi Arabia who do want a change, and this includes WOMEN, will have the right to NOT have any say in anything whatsoever.
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Hi gypsy8522,
I feel that we got off on the wrong foot because I defended KuteNurse's right to express her honest opinion a while back. That is not because I agree with her on all (or even most!) things, but because I believe that hiding opinions so as not to offend just breeds more ignorance and separation. Frankly, I was disappointed with several of her opinions (how they seem not to change), and more importantly, her actions. But I think her honest response was valuable.
I was indoctrinated from birth that the Westerners running the USA are fallible, sometimes foolish, and often make poor decisions. That social conventions are sometimes silly, but inescapable.
And I'm not "telling" Jordan or Saudi Arabia what to do. I am stating my opinion of what sometimes happens there. If you want to talk about American kids shooting other kids at school, hey...at least they are prosecuted for it. I think how the legal system works is very important, both here and abroad. If the laws hurt people, or I feel they are not enforced fairly, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, I get frustrated a lot.
And sure, I'd mind if another country tried to interfere with our legal system. Interference is one thing...stating their opinions is another.
I supposed you are against Amnesty International as well? I for one support their efforts of "foreign conscience", even....
especially when it is levied against the criminal acts of my own government. I think in some cases, foreign opinion has helped tip the balance towards a positive change.
And if you check my posts carefully, I've made repeated references to the
de-facto (not always codified in law) requirement that women wear head scarves - if going bare-headed isn't really an option for women, because godly men (and women) will harass them, I feel that is linked to other institutionalized restrictions on women. I don't believe that all the hijabed women in Iran for example, wear hijab out of religious conviction. I think at least a large minority simply wish to avoid harassment. I think the idea of "she is not my religion or she's not moral enough, therefore she's fair game" is very damaging and wrong. Many people here have that feeling, and I feel some people in other countries have that feeling, too (but towards different groups).
While I haven't sent any letters specifically requesting that the USA get out of Saudi Arabia, I have sent many letters to my legislators about particular energy policies, trying to reduce our dependence on oil. And the US is trying to get out of Saudi Arabia...that's the other part of what the Iraq war is all about. The criminal idiots in the executive branch thought we could just replace our old Saudi military bases with new, Iraqi ones.
By the way, I'd love to hear what you have to say about the silent majority in Saudi Arabia. If you'd be kind enough to tell me.
I'm sooo not anti-religion. I'm anti-religious-bias, though (and also anti-atheist bias, incidentally). I'm sorry I look bigoted. I know that I do have prejudices, but I try to keep an eye on where I'm coming from, and where I'm going, and keep them to a minimum. I talk with people who challenge my point of view. I work very hard to treat people with respect. I also try to be honest about my opinions, and sometimes that comes off as disrespectful. Some people don't feel I am entitled to have -- or voice -- an opinion about another country. From where you stand, I will always be wrong - partly because of where I'm coming from. Even if I go abroad again, or learn Arabic, I will still be American. I know I can never learn enough to have a valid opinion in many people's eyes, and that I will always be a product of my own culture (and yes, I do have one
). That won't stop me from trying to understand how things work, though.
I'm sorry if I offended you, or made you feel badly. That's not what I was trying to do.
I think I am going to start a new thread. I hope you will come and join me there, and bring your honest opinions.