Originally Posted by Jeffrey

A'isha,
I think perhaps we are getting much too involved in semantics here. What you are calling "authentic ethnic bellydance" and "bellydance", are they the same thing?

A'isha writes- Dear Jeffrey, yes.


When the rest of the world calls something by a certain name, you are certainly free to call it by any name you wish, but it will cause confusion when you talk or correspond with people.

A.writes- I am not sure who you mean by the rest of the world. The general public in the U.S. is under the impression that "belly dance" is an exptic art form from the Middle East, though they may not know ecxactly where that is. My friends and students are really clear on what belly dance is and is not. I usually don't even have much trouble with dancers understanding what I mean, though there are some who feel rather hostile to the notion that belly dance is an ethnic dance form.


Darbukah, tabla, doumbek (mostly American), tareja, darbeleke, are just some of the same names for the very same instrument (but most of us know that). Zills, finger cymbals, etc. are another. If you ask any of the people that are even remotely involved in what I call "bellydance" to describe what bellydance is, I would guarantee that almost all of them would describe something that you would not consider bellydance.

A. writes- But, the general public still understands belly dance to be something that comes form a foreign land, not from the U.S and not fused with western concepts in dance. And I find that there are many dancers who think and feel as I do. They are recticent to speak up because they see what kind of trouble I am always in! Jeffrey, I really don't think you can make that guarantee. And I should add that all the time there are more dancers calling for clarity in definition, When I first started there was no definition at all. It was all just "belly dance" . Now there is more clarification and definition of styles than 30 years ago and I think this trend will continue and grow. I have seen it grow a lot in my time as dancer.


So I propose that you are not necessarily incorrect in your feelings about this dance form, but rather you have a very narrow view and perhaps another word or term would be more suitable for you to describe what it is that you do. Perhaps "authentic Middle-Eastern ethnic dance", because the entire rest of the world is going to be calling these different forms that we are talking about "bellydance".

A. writes- I disagree and would say in fact that the current trend is not following that line at all. See above. Also, "belly dance" is not my term, but the term of the public who have the idea that they are seeing Middle Eastern dance when they see the words "belly dance". Ask them if you don't believe me. I have done this and they may not know an exact location, but they get in the general vicinity! Neither of us can know waht the future will bring, but I see the opposite happening. We now have many things that are defined more clearly than ever. There is to begin with Turkish, Lebanese and Egyptian belly dance, when 30 years ago there was no clarity on that at all in most cases. I was fortunate to begin my studies with an Arab woman who had danced and sang on the Egyptian circuit, so I had some samall awareness of it.

Classical Ottoman court music and dance is very different. Classic Persian dance is very different. Classic Egyptian music and dance is very different. Traditional North African dance is also very different. None of these forms have any similarities to what either you or I would think of when we say the term "bellydance".

A.writes- I am not sure what your point is above, since I have never argued that point. I have been dancing for over 32 years. During that time I have studied Egyptian belly dance and various fokloric dances, American Oriental ( Thanks for the definition, Salome!), Turkish belly dance, Turkish folkloric dance including Ali Pasa. I have studied Persian classical dance and Greek Syrtos and other Greek folkloric dances. I have studied the dances of the Maghrib including Tunisian, Algerian and Moroccan forms. I have studied Samri and Saudi forms of the dance in depth and in fact introduced Raqs Nejdi Hadith into the States with my best friend, who is Saudi. I fully understand differences between folkloric dances and belly dance and I also note that these dances are understood as being separate forms and distinguished when they are called anything at all. No one mistakes Samri for belly dance. That is all I want for the dances, clarity in definition. Since belly dance denotes to the public a dance that is from these mysterious countries, that is what I base my thinking on. Ethnic belly dance is already called that by the general public. They do not think fusion, they think of the dance from over there.

The whole origins of bellydance are vague, but the one thing that connects all of the theories to the origins of what we call "bellydance" has to do with a contact with foriegn travellers, mostly Europeans.



A. writes- I disagree and there is a lot of reason to believe the dance was developing as an entertaimment of, by and for the natives before it ever hit the entertainment stage. This is not a vague process and it also is easy to trace to very specific time period. The same thing has happend around the world to dances as large groups of people moved in the cities from the countryside. their dances evolved within their own cultural environment, into new forms.


The idea that this form of dance was in anyway practiced among women and for women going back in history is pure speculation and it could be true, but there is no concrete evidence of it.

A. writes- I agree, tentatively,but I am not sure why you are making this reference.

What we do know is that these dance forms were introduced into western society and they became the rage. People from the Middle-East saw an opportunity to earn an income and began to cater to western tastes. I'm not saying that some of the music and dance moves didn't exist in some manner before, but the whole idea of the single "bellydancer", the performance, drum solo, etc. is a relatively new phenomenon that came about after more contact with the west.

A'writes- Again I would have to say that we really do need to get over the idea that nothing ever happens until we get on the scene. I very much disagree with that statement above. Drum solos and other sorts of taqsims have been in Arab music for ever. The solo performer has been a mainstay in Egyptian dance for longer than we have been there. I do agree that belly dance is probably slightly more than 100 years old, but I think it would have evolved with or without the input of the west. It might have been used in one capacity as entertainment for foreigners, but it has been perfomed at weddings and other celebrations that do not involve the west for a long time.


In a strictly Moslem society, the idea of a woman dressing anything like a typical bellydancer would be scandalous and frowned upon. I realize that the Mid-East is NOT all moslem, but those values did regulate the society. The whole issue of cabaret style dancing in clubs with the free flow of alchoholic beverages is also not quite acceptable behavior, even though we all know that Islamic people living in the west sometimes relax those restrictions.

A.Writes- I don't understand how this fits into our conversation. It is pretty clear that belly dance is not a "nice" thing to do in Islamic societies, or for that matter even here by some peoples' estimation. This is not a dasnce about social acceptability and never has been...

I have had some contact with Dondi and her sister. She has studied and performed in Egypt, for Egyptians. Once for Omar Shariff for his birthday celebration. She does what the Egyptians consider to be excellent Egyptian dance. She was a longtime member of Bellydance Superstars