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Old 02-08-2008, 06:35 AM   #97 (permalink)
gypsy8522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
Dear Kutenurse,
I know this is addressed to Gypsy and I will leave most of it alone, but I just wanted to point out that I am the one who said that about solitary confinement, not gypsy.

G: A'isha, I believe this was "mistakingly" addressed to me, as you were the one who said most of those things. But, it's okay. If "arabic countries" Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia all got boxed into the same thing, I don't see why you and I can't be the same person, using different names


I do stand by it as I did a paper on the injustices and abuses in the prison system in college and this was a huge issue. Anyway, below.

Perhaps I posted a poor quality video, however, the written documentation I have seen written in the Muslim kuran does not lie about Muslim men's views on how they treat women. For example:


Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and
clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

G:Yes, Islam is opressive to women... Is this why the female converts to Islam in the West outnumber the males?

A. writes- Taken in context to the times, when women were indeed mostly treated like cattle throughout the world, this is a step up , believe me. The Prophet Mohamed ( Peace be on him) was the first man in the monotheistic religions to admit that women had rights at all, and he saw to it that they were given inheritance rights, the right to an equal education with men, the right to own their own businesses and keep their own money, and much more.
In the U.S, just a little over a hundred years ago, men could vie for the right to control the property of a woman whose husband has died.... even if they were not related to her!!


G:What A'isha said

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving." [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]

A. writes- Actually that line just means if you have had sex with a woman, you should clean up before prayer. The Bible, by the way, says the same thing. I should also add here that women are constantly being referred to as "unclean" in the Bible when they are having their periods. Also, in one Jewish prayer, men thank God that they are not women. Monotheistic, patriarchal religions do have that mindset. If you really want to get sickened, I challenge you to go online and Google "Christian Domestic Discipline".

G:Muslims perform Wodu, which means washing one's face, hands and feet before prayer. In the desert where water is scarce or not available, a person could use clean sand instead to rub the face and hands. Therefore, no, it does not mean that women are "worse than dirt".

It could be the fact that you don't understand arabic, the original language which the Qur'an was written in, so you just went ahead and quoted words translated through someone else's mindset and misinterpreted it. However, in this case, even literally the translation is considered wrong and out of context.


Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, 'But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"

A. writes- This line is suspect because there were no "Israelis" during the time the Qur'an was being written.

G: This tops the "Iraqi beats woman for not covering face" video caption.

I think what is meant here is the Children of Israel. It could be that the person who did this english Qura'anic translation was an Egyptian shop owner?!?!


I do see weaknesses in your education material you tried posting such as: Using a talk show host as a reputable source for domestic violence. Also, your comparison of capital punishment of a woman being stoned to death in Iran vs. the United States use of death penalty for murderers. Also, I am not certain how you can tie solitary confinement into the same category as capital punishment.

A. writes- Think about the men who sit in solitary confinement on death row and see if you do not think that is as cruel and unusual as beheading, or electrocution, or hanging. I certainly do. I am the one who brought that up, not Gypsy.

G: Thank you!

I personally see that you also do not know much of the ways of the world of outside of the middle east and you have much to learn as we all do...including myself. I could also say you are prejudice against Americans for making statements you have said and I can also say you are misinformed in American ways.

A. writes- Well, I said that and I am American.....

G: A'isha, it would appear that you too are misinformed in American ways.

Regards,
A'isha



Katenurse,

If you bothered to click on the link I provided (the same way I actually took time to watch the "interesting" video you posted) you would know that the statistics about domestic violence shown in the clip was from a news program on abc, not Oprah. Either way, you missed my point. It was not much about the statistics as much as it was to show the source of these statistics: it came from American news media, not a foreign one.

And to end this post, I would like to thank our islamic culture for giving us Egyptians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Moroccans and the rest of the Arab world our history, traditions and this rich heritage..... the heritage that people from all over the world like to spend so much time discussing on this forum.
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